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MODERATOR:
Let's
welcome the candidates, Governor Bush and Vice President Gore.
Good
evening, from Wake Chapel at Wake Forest University at
Winston-Salem,
North Carolina. I'm
Jim Lehrer of the News Hour on PBS.
Welcome
to this second election 2000 debate between the Republican
candidate
for president, George W. Bush of Texas, and the Democratic
candidate,
Vice President Al Gore. These
debates are sponsored by the
Commission
on Presidential Debates.
The format and the rules are those
negotiated
by representatives of the two campaigns.
Only the subjects
tonight
and the questions are mine.
The format tonight is that of a
conversation.
The only prevailing rule is that no single response can
ever,
ever exceed two minutes.
The prevailing rule for the audience here
in
the hall is as always, absolute quiet, please.
Good evening, Governor
Bush,
Vice President Gore. The
end of our 90 minutes last week in
Boston,
the total time each of you took was virtually the same.
Let's
see
if we can do the same tonight, or come close.
Governor Bush, the
first
question goes to you. One
of you is about to be elected the leader
of
the single-most powerful nation in the world, economically,
financially,
militarily, diplomatically, you name it.
Have you formed
any
guiding principles for exercising this enormous power?
BUSH:
I
have, I have. First
question is what's in the best interests of the
United
States? What's in
the best interests of our people?
When it
comes
to foreign policy that will be my guiding question.
Is it in our
nation's
interests? Peace
in the Middle East is in our nation's
interests. Having a hemisphere that is free for trade and peaceful is in
our
nation's interests. Strong
relations in Europe is in our nation's
interest. I've thought a lot about what it means to be the president.
I
also
understand that an administration is not one person, but an
administration
is dedicated citizens who are called by the president to
serve
the country, to serve a cause greater than self, and so I've
thought
about an administration of people who represent all America,
but
people
who understand my compassionate and conservative philosophy.
I
haven't
started naming names except for one person, and that's Mr.
Richard
Cheney who I thought did a great job the other night.
He's a
vice
presidential nominee who represents -- I think people got to
see why
I
picked him. He's
man of solid judgment and he's going to be a person
to
stand by my side. One
of the things I've done in Texas is I've been
able
to put together a good team of people.
I've been able to set clear
goals. The goals ought to be an education system that leaves no
child
behind,
Medicare for our seniors, a Social Security system that's safe
and
secure, foreign policy that's in our nation's interest, and a
strong
military,
and then bring people together to achieve those goals.
That's
what
a Chief Executive Officer does.
So I've thought long and hard about
the
honor of being the President of the United States.
MODERATOR:
Vice
President Gore?
GORE:
Yes,
Jim. I've thought a lot about that particular question, and I see
our
greatest national strength coming from what we stand for in
the
world. I see it as a question of values. It is a great tribute to our
founders
that 224 years later this nation is now looked to by the
peoples
on
every other continent and the peoples from every part of this
earth as
a
kind of model for what their future could be.
And I don't think that's
just
the kind of exaggeration that we take pride in as Americans.
It's
really
true, even the ones that sometimes shake their fists at us.
As
soon
as they have a change that allows the people to speak freely,
they're
wanting to develop some kind of blueprint that will help them
be
like
us more, freedom, free markets, political freedom.
So I think first
and
foremost our power ought to be wielded to in ways that form a
more
perfect
union. The power
of example is America's greatest power in the
world. And that means, for example, standing up for human rights.
It
means
addressing the problems of injustice and inequity, along the
lines
of
race and ethnicity here at home, because in all these other
places
around
the world where they're having these terrible problems, when
they
feel
hope, it is often because they see in us a reflection of their
potential. So we've got to enforce our civil rights laws.
We've got to
deal
with things like racial profiling.
And we have to keep our military
strong. We have the strongest military, and I'll do whatever is
necessary,
if I'm president, to make sure that it stays that way.
But
our
real power comes, I think, from our values.
MODERATOR:
Should
the people of the world look at the United States, Governor,
and
say,
should they fear us, should they welcome our involvement,
should
they
see us as a friend, everybody in the world?
How would you project
us
around the world, as president?
BUSH:
Well,
I think they ought to look at us as a country that understands
freedom
where it doesn't matter who you are or how you're raised or
where
you're
from, that you can succeed.
I don't think they'll look at us with
envy.
It really depends upon how our nation conducts itself
in foreign
policy. If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us.
If we're a
humble
nation, but strong, they'll welcome us.
And it's -- our nation
stands
alone right now in the world in terms of power, and that's why
we
have
to be humble. And
yet project strength in a way that promotes
freedom. So I don't think they ought to look at us in any way other
than
what
we are. We're a freedom-loving nation and if we're an arrogant
nation
they'll view us that way, but if we're a humble nation they'll
respect
us.
MODERATOR:
A
humble nation.
GORE:
I
agree with that. I
agree with that. I think that one of the problems
that
we have faced in the world is that we are so much more
powerful than
any
single nation has been in relationship to the rest of the
world than
at
any time in history, that I know about, anyway.
That there is some
resentment
of U.S. power. So
I think that the idea of humility is an
important
one. But I think
that we also have to have a sense of mission
in
the world. We
have to protect our capacity to push forward what
America's
all about. That
means not only military strength and our
values,
it also means keeping our economy strong.
You know, in the last,
or
two decades ago it was routine for leaders of foreign
countries to
come
over here and say you guys have got to do something about
these
horrendous
deficits because it's causing tremendous problems for the rest
of
the world, and we were lectured to all the time.
The fact that we
have
the strongest economy in history today is not good enough.
We need
to
do more. But the fact that it is so strong enables us to project the
power
for good that America can represent.
MODERATOR:
Does
that give us -- does our wealth, our good economy, our power,
bring
with
it special obligations to the rest of the world?
BUSH:
Yes,
it does. Take,
for example, Third World debt.
I think we ought to
be
forgiving Third World debt under certain conditions.
I think, for
example,
if we're convinced that a Third World country that's got a lot
of
debt would reform itself, that the money wouldn't go into the
hands of
a
few but would go to help people, I think it makes sense for us
to use
our
wealth in that way, or to trade debt for valuable rain forest
lands,
makes
that much sense, yes. We
do have an obligation, but we can't be
all
things to all people. We
can help build coalitions but we can't put
our
troops all around the world.
We can lend money but we have to do it
wisely. We shouldn't be lending money to corrupt officials.
So we have
to
be guarded in our generosity.
MODERATOR:
Let's
go through some of the specifics now.
New question. Vice
President
Gore, the governor mentioned the Middle East.
Here we're
talking
at this stage in the game about diplomatic power that we have.
What
do you think the United States should do right now to resolve
that
conflict
over there?
GORE:
The
first priority has to be on ending the violence, dampening
down the
tensions
that have arisen there. We
need to call upon Syria to release
the
three Israeli soldiers who have been captured.
We need to insist
that
Arafat send out instructions to halt some of the provocative
acts of
violence
that have been going on.
I think that we also have to keep a
weather
eye toward Saddam Hussein because he is taking advantage of
this
situation
to once again make threats, and he needs to understand that
he's
not only dealing with Israel, he is dealing -- he's dealing
with us
if
he is making the kind of threats that he's talking about
there. The
use
of diplomacy in this situation has already, well, it goes
hour-by-hour
and day-by-day now. It's
a very tense situation there.
But
in
the last 24 hours there has been some subsiding of the
violence
there. It's too much to hope that this is going to continue, but I
do
hope
that it will continue. Our
country has been very active with
regular
conversations with the leaders there.
And we just have to take
it
day-to-day right now. But
one thing I would say where diplomacy is
concerned,
Israel should feel absolutely secure about one thing.
Our
bonds
with Israel are larger than agreements or disagreements on
some
details
of diplomatic initiatives.
They are historic, they are strong,
and
they are enduring. And
our ability to serve as an honest broker is
something
that we need to shepherd.
MODERATOR:
Governor?
BUSH:
Well,
I think during the campaign, particularly now during this
difficult
period, we ought to be speaking with one voice, and I
appreciate
the way the administration has worked hard to calm the
tensions. Like the vice president, I call on Chairman Arafat to have
his
people
pull back to make the peace.
I think credibility is going to be
very
important in the future in the Middle East.
I want everybody to
know
should I be the president Israel's going to be our friend.
I'm
going
to stand by Israel. Secondly,
that I think it's important to reach
out
to moderate Arab nations, like Jordan and Egypt, Saudi Arabia
and
Kuwait. It's important to be friends with people when you don't need
each
other so that when you do there's a strong bond of friendship.
And
that's
going to be particularly important in dealing not only with
situations
such as now occurring in Israel, but with Saddam Hussein.
The
coalition
against Saddam has fallen apart or it's unraveling, let's put
it
that way. The sanctions are being violated. We don't know whether
he's
developing weapons of mass destruction.
He better not be or there's
going
to be a consequence should I be the president.
But it's important
to
have credibility and credibility is formed by being strong
with your
friends
and resoluting your determination.
One of the reasons why I
think
it's important for this nation to develop an anti-ballistic
missile
system
that we can share with our allies in the Middle East if need
be to
keep
the peace is to be able to say to the Saddam Husseins of the
world
or
the Iranians, don't dare threaten our friends.
It's also important to
keep
strong ties in the Middle East, credible ties, because of the
energy
crisis
we're now in. After
all, a lot of the energy is produced from the
Middle
East, and so I appreciate what the administration is doing.
I
hope
to get a sense of should I be fortunate to be the president
how my
administration
will react to the Middle East.
MODERATOR:
So
you don't believe, Vice President Gore, that we should take
sides and
resolve
this right now? A
lot of people pushing hey, the United States
should
declare itself and not be so neutral in this particular
situation.
GORE:
Well,
we stand with Israel, but we have maintained the ability to
serve
as
an honest broker. And
one of the reasons that's important is that
Israel
cannot have direct dialogue with some of the people on the
other
side
of conflicts, especially during times of tension, unless that
dialogue
comes through us. And
if we throw away that ability to serve as
an
honest broker, then we have thrown -- we will have thrown away
a
strategic
asset that's important not only to us but also to Israel.
MODERATOR:
You
agree with that, Governor?
BUSH:
I
do. I do think
this, though. When
it comes to timetables it can't be
the
United States timetable as to how discussions take place.
It's got
to
be a timetable that all parties can agree to, like the
Palestinians
and
Israelis. Secondly,
any lasting peace is going to have to be a peace
that's
good for both sides. And
therefore, the term honest broker makes
sense. This current administration's worked hard to keep the parties
at
the
table. I will try to do the same thing.
But it won't be on my
timetable,
it will be on the timetable that people are comfortable with
in
the Middle East.
MODERATOR:
People
watching here tonight are very interested in Middle East
policy,
and
they are so interested they want to base their vote on
differences
between
the two of you as president how you would handle Middle East
policy. Is there any difference?
GORE:
I
haven't heard a big difference in the last few exchanges.
BUSH:
That's
hard to tell. I
think that, you know, I would hope to be able to
convince
people I could handle the Iraqi situation better.
MODERATOR:
Saddam
Hussein, you mean, get him out of there?
BUSH:
I
would like to, of course, and I presume this administration
would as
well.
We don't know -- there are no inspectors now in Iraq,
the
coalition
that was in place isn't as strong as it used to be.
He is a
danger. We don't want him fishing in troubled waters in the Middle
East.
And
it's going to be hard, it's going to be important to rebuild
that
coalition
to keep the pressure on him.
MODERATOR:
You
feel that is a failure of the Clinton administration?
BUSH:
I
do.
GORE:
Well,
when I got to be a part of the current administration, it was
right
after -- I was one of the few members of my political party to
support
former President Bush in the Persian Gulf War resolution, and
at
the
end of that war, for whatever reason, it was not finished in a
way
that
removed Saddam Hussein from power.
I know there are all kinds of
circumstances
and explanations. But
the fact is that that's the
situation
that was left when I got there.
And we have maintained the
sanctions. Now I want to go further.
I want to give robust support to
the
groups that are trying to overthrow Saddam Hussein, and I know
there
are
allegations that they're too weak to do it, but that's what
they said
about
the forces that were opposing Milosevic in Serbia, and you
know,
the
policy of enforcing sanctions against Serbia has just resulted
in a
spectacular
victory for democracy just in the past week, and it seems to
me
that having taken so long to see the sanctions work there,
building
upon
the policy of containment that was successful over a much
longer
period
of time against the former Soviet Union in the communist
block,
seems
a little early to declare that we should give up on the
sanctions.
I
know the governor's not necessarily saying that but, you know,
all of
these
flights that have come in, all of them have been in accordance
with
the
sanctions regime, I'm told, except for three where they
notified, and
they're
trying to break out of the box, there's no question about it.
I
don't
think they should be allowed to.
MODERATOR:
Did
he state your position correctly, you're not calling for
eliminating
the
sanctions, are you?
BUSH:
No,
of course not, absolutely not, I want them to be tougher.
MODERATOR:
Let's
go on to Milosevic and Yugoslavia, and it falls under the area
of
our
military power. Governor,
new question. Should
the fall of
Milosevic
be seen as a triumph for U.S. military intervention?
BUSH:
I
think it's a triumph. I
thought the president made the right decision
in
joining NATO and bombing Serbia.
I supported them when they did so.
I
called upon the Congress not to hamstring the administration,
and in
terms
of forcing troop withdrawals on a timetable that wasn't
necessarily
in
our best interest or fit our nation's strategy, and so I think
it's
good
public policy, I think it worked, and I'm pleased I took --
made the
decision
I made. I'm
pleased the president made the decision he made.
Because
freedom to go in that part of the world, and where there's a
lot
of
work left to be done, however.
MODERATOR:
But
you think it would not have happened -- do you think that
Milosevic
would
not have fallen if the United States and NATO had not
intervened
militarily? Is this a legitimate use of our military power?
BUSH:
Yes,
I think it is. Absolutely.
I don't think he would have fallen had
we
not used the force. And
I know there are some in our party that
disagree
with that sentiment. I
supported the president.
I thought he
made
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